“We’re seeing a war against trans individuals being waged by our federal government, and we, as citizens, need to be willing to step up and say this is not OK,” Kluwe said. “The Democratic Party has taken a very defensive posture on trans issues when that’s the absolute wrong thing to do. You don’t make a bully go away by cowering in the corner and say, I’ll agree with you on these little things. That just encourages the bully.
“We need to be full-throated in the attack, saying these are people who pay taxes, who serve in our military, and who are entitled to the exact same rights that every single other American is entitled to, which includes health care and the opportunity to live a prosperous life. We can’t be afraid of the right-wing fear machine. We have to take it to them, show that we’re willing to fight.”
Yeah, they’re not banned from participating in sports, they’re just banned from participating together with their peers, essentially forcing them to deny their identity to participate. Not much of a choice, that.
And that’s not even going into the fact that trans women statistically are more at risk for sexual assault than any other demographic (yes, even moreso than cis women) and male athletes are amongst the most frequent sex offenders.
So yeah, not so fucking reasonable!
Adding nuance is great, as it helps identify the actual issues and discussion actual solutions.
But do you see how saying “Trans people are being banned from sports” is an intentionally manipulative way representing the issue? I see stuff like this all the time on here, and it gets tiring.
I’ll be honest, I see manipulative language in your comment as well.
Male/female sports isn’t about “playing with your peers”. Also, there’s a further nuance that NOBODY discusses, and that’s the difference between competitive levels. Schools have varsity vs jv. There’s travel leagues vs Rec leagues. Trans people should have the opportunity to play with their peers, but that doesn’t mean it has to include every level of competition.
"Essentially” is doing some very heavy lifting in this sentence because nothing else about that sentence is true.
Is this bad? Yeah! Should something be done about this? Of course!
But you bring it up to make it sound like this is a result of trans women not being allowed to play women sports. This is incredibly manipulative.
I could go on with other comments I have seen on here.
No it’s not. “You’re banned unless you deny your identity and put yourself at risk” takes more words and means essentially the same thing.
When there’s no reasonable alternative from being banned, you’re effectively banned.
The hell it isn’t! The social aspects are a HUGE part of any team sport. The sense of belonging is a huge part of why children want to do it in the first place.
Membership of the team and the associated belonging being contingent on pretending to be something they’re not is a surefire way to life long identity and self acceptance issues BEYOND what gender dysphoria already brings.
It’s abuse, if not literally a form of torture.
Because none of the bans differentiate between those. It’s not “no trans girls in elite sports but junior varsity is ok”.
Pretending otherwise isn’t adding “nuance”, it’s needlessly pretending that a very clear line is smudged.
So what, they’re to be allowed to participate, but if they’re too good, they’re going to be held back with kids of lesser prowess and/or zeal?
Or do you mean the other way around? ONLY the trans athletes who are better than most cis athletes should be allowed to play?
Either way, that’s bigoted, no matter how much you pretend that it isn’t.
So you’re saying that trans girls participating on the boys’ team would NOT be denying their identity? In what fucking world?
No, I make it sound like forcing trans girls into locker rooms with male athletes puts them at higher risk of being sexually or otherwise assaulted than they otherwise would be.
And the reason why I “make it sound like that” is because it IS like that.
If anything, what’s manipulative is you trying so hard to mask your bigotry behind what you think sounds like reasonable concerns when it’s everything but
I bet you could. Lemmy tends not to be a safe space for concern trolling and transphobia.
Phew. Too many things to respond to, but I read all of it, and I definitely see your perspective on many things and understand the unique challenges trans people face.
Specifically in the conversation of sports, I see the other side of it. The male/female distinction in sports doesn’t exist so you can play with your peers. It’s due biological differences between people born male and female. I understand that you will add massive amount of context that is very specific to trans people, but to most people, it is a very simple thing that does not need to be complicated by medication or body composition, or anything else.
Your comment about not distinguishing between competitive and non competitive sports is literally my point. It should be distinguished. Trans community should be saying “we just want to play with our peers, we don’t care at what level”. This would make the conversation much different nationally.
Is this actually based on anything, or is it just an idea that you think makes sense that isnt actually representative of where sexual assaults come from? I genuinely wonder as it just doesn’t make sense that sexual assaults would come as a result of sharing a locker room. I would guess that allowing trans women to play women sports would have a 0% impact on the stat.
There are many sports where females are on male teams already, and each one of those needs to take into account the locker room situation. For trans women, this should be considered as well. And if it’s not, that is a problem with the administration, not with the sport structure.
Oh, you are a transphobic bigot! Sexist, too.
This is 99% wrong. The gendered distinctions in sports exist largely because in sports with the most gendered bias the top tier of girls still outperforms the sub-median cohort of boys,.and those boys historically do not take it well.
In a discussion about trans girls your ignorance is even worse, since every trans athlete who has ever been allowed to play has ranked about as well as a woman as they did as a man.
Ftfy. I see your opinion was stated as fact. You can say I am ignorant about something, which would make for a valuable conversation, but saying “you’re a bigot cause you don’t know the things I know” is a non starter.
Even worse since most people do not see things the same as you.
Are you saying we separate male/female sports because a boy doesn’t want to lose to a girl? It’s a pride thing?
Much like the comment on sexual assault, if you have actual articles that support this, I’d love to hear it.
I’m not finding a second source for someone who misquotes me and refused to supply even one.
And it doesn’t matter why you are a bigot. You don’t get a lollipop because your racism was learned instead of reactionary, because your homophobia was out of ignorance instead of panic, or that your transphobia was because you fell for propaganda instead of actively seeking out a minority you can bully.
You said bigoted things. You’ve made arguments identical to those of hard-right trolls. Whether you’re actually a sealioning redcap or just a privileged liberal who mistook a sophomoric conclusion for actual insight is IRRELEVENT.
I called you a bigot based on statements you made. If this offends you then I can only hope that the experience of anonymous strangers on the internet being mean might be enough to help you grow up and start caring about people who aren’t like you.
Trans voters act harshly to transphobia because when they don’t it just encourages more transphobia. Pols who aren’t transphobic themselves moderate their subsequent statements,.and those who are instead do what youve done and double down on their biases even in the face of objection and explanation.
I really do hope you grow up before the rest of the world becomes as dangerous for trans people as the United Kingdom has become.
Here’s what it looks like to me. You and I have a difference of opinions. But you don’t have a real solid argument for why you are right and I am wrong.
So instead of having a conversation and making arguments, you demonize me. If I’m a bigot, then you don’t need to have a conversation. You don’t need to take my comments seriously. You also don’t need to defend your position or argue against mine.
Fact is, I am an incredibly open and empathetic person. I consider myself progressive, pro lgbtq. But I also recognize that a problem leftists have had is not listening to the actual things the opposition says. Not everything a conservative says is wrong. For you, it’s easy to say “you’re a bigot” and feel good about yourself. For me, I want to understand where their comments are coming from. Many times it is coming from a place of bigotry, but many times it is well intentioned.
You want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, your going to find your movement is very lonely. You want to accept that not everybody on the left shares 100% of your opinions. You want to engage in dialogue rather than calling people names. I think things will be much better for everybody.
I asked you to prove one example that supports this assertion of over-reaction and you refused. Find me one example of a current candidate who made a mildly transphobic remark and neither recanted nor exposed stronger transphobia and we could have a reasoned discourse over the reasonableness of the trans reaction.
I didn’t call you a bigot because I think you are incapable of growing and becoming better. I called you a bigot because you said bigoted things. I really do hope that you change your mind and realize how toxic you echoing hard-right talking points is.
Why is the ignorance of those echoing bigotry more important to you than the outrage of those targeted by it?