What if we know a famine is coming and so I create a food stand and sell burgers at $5 a burger to everyone and 1 billion people buy a burger from me when they could have bought something else to eat pre-famine. Now I’ve made 5 billion dollars (we’re going to greatly simplify this thought experiment) and I buy up tons of food.
How did I obtain all of that food? Well, 1 billion people consented to a trade with me for burgers in exchange for money. So now what if those people all get together and say, we want you to give us 50% of your food!
Well, why the hell did you all consent to $5 a burger then? You could have literally negotiated it at $2.50 a burger and then saved the other $2.50, couldn’t you? Or why didn’t you all buy $1.00 salads at the other shop instead and save up the remaining $4.00? Do you understand that to demand what I have now is to simply say you consented to $5 then decided to show back up with a mob and threaten me unless I sold it for $2.50? And what if I wouldn’t have consented to $2.50 so I stopped selling burgers and went out of business? Then everyone could have just got that $1 salad instead and saved that money for future food.
So now we’re in a famine and people are without food and I’m to blame because I have food? I need to give everyone back because everyone changed their mind due to future circumstances?
And hell, I would personally be more than happy to help GOOD people in need, but how do I know who’s good? Would you feed the child rapist if you had the food? Would you let them into your home and feed them? Or just expect someone else to do all of that for you and assume you’re playing your part because you vote and get taxed?
So some people don’t deserve your food even if you have an abundance, do they? And what if I let someone into my home and they don’t just take what I offer, but they try to take all of it? What if they try to kill me and my family? Should I trust the next person who comes by asking for food? If a mob shows up at my door with pitchforks and demands - the same ones who CONSENTED to pay me for my burgers before, do I just open my doors happily?
You’re simplifying a hugely complex construct. Life isn’t as simple as this and people aren’t as trustworthy as this. I’d see all rapists and murderers dead. The ONLY reason I am actually NOT in favor of the death penalty is because I do not want a single innocent person murdered for something they did not do. If we had an unequivocal way of knowing rapists and murderers committed the acts, I would say immediate death penalty for each and every one without question.
Not all human life has the same value. We all know this and we all live this way, we just don’t want to think about it and certainly don’t want to talk about it in public because it’s not the politically correct thing to talk about.
And that would be your choice, but then what? Do you let them share a bed with your child? Or do you even have limits? Do you detain them and cage them after? Do you just let them go free? What if it was your child they raped?
Rehabilitation for individuals who have committed sexual offenses reduce those sexual reoffending (recidivism) by roughly 35% compared to not receiving treatment.
So if there are 100 rapes, your method will reduce that down to 65. Removing that person from society completely reduces it by 100%.
Also, in the case of someone who will not stop unless immediately put down, there is no alternative choice.
Even having this conversation with you is really disturbing. I’m guessing you don’t have children of your own? I have an infant daughter, for example, and if I ever saw a man on her trying to do something that horrific, why on earth would you think that my impulse should be to just assume I can stop him and she won’t be violated or even killed? How do I know that he won’t win in a strength contest with me and keep going, or even do worse after that point? How do I know what his ultimate motives even are? How do I know his end-goal isn’t to kill me and my whole family? How do I know if he has a gun, or a knife? All I know is there’s a man trying to rape my daughter. I don’t have the time to ask 20 questions and I don’t know what he’s doing or what he’s capable of, or who he even is!
The ONLY rational answer is to kill the man, if at all possible. The fact that he broke into my home and is attempting to assault my child is all the information needed to make the single most rational choice a father could make.
If you’re not a parent and your take is you think you can toss this person around and hope your child, yourself, and/or your family won’t be violated or murdered, then please for the love of god don’t have children, I beg you.
I create the famine to sell more burgers, I blow up the salad stall and kill it’s owner, and lobby the government to make me the only authorized food seller and I buy all the other food places.
I can’t make billions of burgers myself, so I employ wage slaves and take 90% of their surplus value, only giving them 10%
They can’t work anywhere else as anywhere else either doesn’t exist or has the same policies as us for profit™️
This is moving the goalpost. Do you agree that if I have enough food for 1000 years and I got it morally then you are not justified in taking it from me even if you are starving? Are you only saying you can have it if I took it from others? These are two completely different things here.
No rational and moral individual is going to argue that if someone stole food from everyone then those “everyone” shouldn’t be valid in taking it back. Nobody believes that.
The big problem there is there are a lot of arguments over what constitutes “ownership”.
But what’s the situation here?
What if we know a famine is coming and so I create a food stand and sell burgers at $5 a burger to everyone and 1 billion people buy a burger from me when they could have bought something else to eat pre-famine. Now I’ve made 5 billion dollars (we’re going to greatly simplify this thought experiment) and I buy up tons of food.
How did I obtain all of that food? Well, 1 billion people consented to a trade with me for burgers in exchange for money. So now what if those people all get together and say, we want you to give us 50% of your food!
Well, why the hell did you all consent to $5 a burger then? You could have literally negotiated it at $2.50 a burger and then saved the other $2.50, couldn’t you? Or why didn’t you all buy $1.00 salads at the other shop instead and save up the remaining $4.00? Do you understand that to demand what I have now is to simply say you consented to $5 then decided to show back up with a mob and threaten me unless I sold it for $2.50? And what if I wouldn’t have consented to $2.50 so I stopped selling burgers and went out of business? Then everyone could have just got that $1 salad instead and saved that money for future food.
So now we’re in a famine and people are without food and I’m to blame because I have food? I need to give everyone back because everyone changed their mind due to future circumstances?
And hell, I would personally be more than happy to help GOOD people in need, but how do I know who’s good? Would you feed the child rapist if you had the food? Would you let them into your home and feed them? Or just expect someone else to do all of that for you and assume you’re playing your part because you vote and get taxed?
So some people don’t deserve your food even if you have an abundance, do they? And what if I let someone into my home and they don’t just take what I offer, but they try to take all of it? What if they try to kill me and my family? Should I trust the next person who comes by asking for food? If a mob shows up at my door with pitchforks and demands - the same ones who CONSENTED to pay me for my burgers before, do I just open my doors happily?
You’re simplifying a hugely complex construct. Life isn’t as simple as this and people aren’t as trustworthy as this. I’d see all rapists and murderers dead. The ONLY reason I am actually NOT in favor of the death penalty is because I do not want a single innocent person murdered for something they did not do. If we had an unequivocal way of knowing rapists and murderers committed the acts, I would say immediate death penalty for each and every one without question.
Not all human life has the same value. We all know this and we all live this way, we just don’t want to think about it and certainly don’t want to talk about it in public because it’s not the politically correct thing to talk about.
I would feed the child rapist
And that would be your choice, but then what? Do you let them share a bed with your child? Or do you even have limits? Do you detain them and cage them after? Do you just let them go free? What if it was your child they raped?
rehabilitation
Let’s use some real life data.
Rehabilitation for individuals who have committed sexual offenses reduce those sexual reoffending (recidivism) by roughly 35% compared to not receiving treatment.
So if there are 100 rapes, your method will reduce that down to 65. Removing that person from society completely reduces it by 100%.
Also, in the case of someone who will not stop unless immediately put down, there is no alternative choice.
Even having this conversation with you is really disturbing. I’m guessing you don’t have children of your own? I have an infant daughter, for example, and if I ever saw a man on her trying to do something that horrific, why on earth would you think that my impulse should be to just assume I can stop him and she won’t be violated or even killed? How do I know that he won’t win in a strength contest with me and keep going, or even do worse after that point? How do I know what his ultimate motives even are? How do I know his end-goal isn’t to kill me and my whole family? How do I know if he has a gun, or a knife? All I know is there’s a man trying to rape my daughter. I don’t have the time to ask 20 questions and I don’t know what he’s doing or what he’s capable of, or who he even is!
The ONLY rational answer is to kill the man, if at all possible. The fact that he broke into my home and is attempting to assault my child is all the information needed to make the single most rational choice a father could make.
If you’re not a parent and your take is you think you can toss this person around and hope your child, yourself, and/or your family won’t be violated or murdered, then please for the love of god don’t have children, I beg you.
better scenario:
I create the famine to sell more burgers, I blow up the salad stall and kill it’s owner, and lobby the government to make me the only authorized food seller and I buy all the other food places.
I can’t make billions of burgers myself, so I employ wage slaves and take 90% of their surplus value, only giving them 10%
They can’t work anywhere else as anywhere else either doesn’t exist or has the same policies as us for profit™️
This is moving the goalpost. Do you agree that if I have enough food for 1000 years and I got it morally then you are not justified in taking it from me even if you are starving? Are you only saying you can have it if I took it from others? These are two completely different things here.
No rational and moral individual is going to argue that if someone stole food from everyone then those “everyone” shouldn’t be valid in taking it back. Nobody believes that.
The big problem there is there are a lot of arguments over what constitutes “ownership”.