Why do you think not wasting resources introducing legislation that’s guaranteed to fail is “rolling over and pissing themselves like whipped puppies”?
Why do you think not wasting resources introducing legislation that’s guaranteed to fail is “rolling over and pissing themselves like whipped puppies”?
It’s very important to demonstrate your party’s values by introducing and passing bills that reflect those values so that you have a record of where you stand that people can see, regardless of whether those bills get vetoed or not. Saying you should wait until you have full power, or assuming they are “guaranteed to fail” is self-fulfilling prophecy and is capitulating in advance.
It demonstrates exactly what the Dem party’s priorities are and what they will do when they have power. People will clearly understand what they will get if they elect a Democratic president and congress.
People will clearly understand what the Repub party’s priorities are when they vote NO on bills that they personally want passed, and when a repub POTUS vetoes them.
The Dem party will receive positive feedback from constituents when they pass bills that constituents want, and that will make them more likely to continue passing even more bills that people want.
It gets publicity and (if popular) builds more public support, which puts more pressure on both reluctant “moderate” Dems and even the Repubs, to get on board with voting for popular legislation if they realize they are more likely to get re-elected when their constituents like what they’re doing, but less likely to get re-elected when a lot of people see them kowtowing to their donors and voting NO on popular legislation.
Make him veto Medicare for All. Make him veto a $25 living wage. Make him veto free childcare. Make him veto Block the Bombs to Israel. Make him veto zero aid to Israel. Make him veto free college. Make him veto erasing student loans. Make him veto taxes on billionaires
assuming they are “guaranteed to fail” is self-fulfilling prophecy and is capitulating in advance.
This is not a “capitulation” or an “assumption”, this is a fact.
It demonstrates exactly what the Dem party’s priorities are and what they will do when they have power.
It demonstrates nothing. They can vote whatever they want, knowing full well it will fail, and is nothing more than a symbolic gesture. They could do the same with a simple statement.
People will clearly understand what the Repub party’s priorities are when they vote NO on bills that they personally want passed
What Republicans do you think want any of these passed? Everyone knows what their priorities are.
The Dem party will receive positive feedback from constituents when they pass bills that constituents want
Except they won’t pass anything , because they’ll be vetoed.
You are not correct when you claim that everyone knows what the Republican’s prorities are. One of the big talking points that got Trump elected was “No New Wars”. A lot of people are politically ignorant and need things shoved in their faces. Making Republicans explain why their political leader is vetoing helpful policies is one of the easiest ways to shove politics into people’s faces.
You are correct that these measures won’t pass under Republican control; it would still be helpful polticially. Even if Republicans vote to pass the measures because they know it will be veoted, this will be helpful by breaking the party unity of the Republicans. “Congressman, the President vetoed a measure you supported. Why do you think that is?” is an easy way to force politicans to force themselves to put distance between themselves and the larger party.
You are not correct when you claim that everyone knows what the Republican’s prorities are
Disagree, but let’s assume that’s true regardless and they don’t understand basic tenets of the Republican party. A veto is going to make them suddenly understand?
“Congressman, the President vetoed a measure you supported. Why do you think that is?”
“I support the President” The end. Already seen that episode.
If it helps, as an Aussie nobody punching his coffee and about to blaze up on a hot Monday morning, I knew Trumps ‘no more wars’ was garbage and I know what Republicans priorities are. I suppose I could throw a bone and say there’s confusion between a number of really evil things, but if there are Americans out there who don’t know, I don’t know what to say to them.
You underestimate human stupidity. Something I want to stress is that this is not unique to the USA. Stupid people like this are everywhere, the USA is just the most famous pig pen.
No one has to let them do anything. They have all the power. They’re going to do it regardless of whether Dems “let them” or not. Dems need to focus their energy somewhere that it can actually make a difference.
I’m not sure I understand who you’re talking about.
The original premise was that if the Dems win the House and Senate in the midterms, and then fail to propose legislation because Trump would veto it that they would then be rolling over and pissing themselves like whipped puppies in 2027.
You then asked why it would mean they would be rolling over and pissing themselves like whipped puppies in that scenario.
I explained that it would be because they were letting the Republicans set the agenda.
Then in your most recent reply, it appears to me that you’re saying the Republicans would have all the power.
Is that what you’re saying? Because that doesn’t make sense to me. If the Dems win the House and Senate, how do the Republicans have all the power?
Exactly. The only option he has is the veto. That’s no reason to let him decide the agenda.
Make him veto popular initiatives. Make him prove over and over that he hates the American people. Force the Republicans in Congress to either side with the people to override the veto or admit that they care more about President Pedo than their own constituents.
Then use the vetos and votes to beat them in the next election.
However, that probably won’t happen. The Dems will roll over and piss themselves like whipped puppies. Because otherwise it would require that establishment Dems turn on the people they work for (billionaires and Israel) in order to support the people who voted for them.
If you do not have the power to do anything, you cannot “let” anyone do it. Just as I can’t “let” you drive too fast in your car, or stab a random person on the street.
Make him veto popular initiatives.
…why?
Make him prove over and over that he hates the American people.
He already has. There’s nothing he could possibly do to make that more clear. Sure as shit not a veto .
Then use the vetos and votes to beat them in the next election.
That’s completely unnecessary. Anyone who doesn’t know where they stand on these basic foundational issues sure as shit won’t know if they veto them.
You’ve never played chess, and it shows. You don’t understand tempo.
If you’re not putting your opponent on the defensive, your opponent is going to put you on the defensive.
By passing a progressive agenda in Congress, they force his hand. He vetos everything, because that’s what he does, and it shows his ass to swing-voters.
If Dems do nothing with a congressional majority because “it would just get vetoed,” then they’re letting him force their hands. They’d do nothing all session, which would show their ass to swing-voters.
If you don’t understand how that matters, then you don’t understand politics. Or you’re just a troll.
Either way, you’re fighting a losing battle here so just stop.
Why do you think not wasting resources introducing legislation that’s guaranteed to fail is “rolling over and pissing themselves like whipped puppies”?
It’s very important to demonstrate your party’s values by introducing and passing bills that reflect those values so that you have a record of where you stand that people can see, regardless of whether those bills get vetoed or not. Saying you should wait until you have full power, or assuming they are “guaranteed to fail” is self-fulfilling prophecy and is capitulating in advance.
This is not a “capitulation” or an “assumption”, this is a fact.
It demonstrates nothing. They can vote whatever they want, knowing full well it will fail, and is nothing more than a symbolic gesture. They could do the same with a simple statement.
What Republicans do you think want any of these passed? Everyone knows what their priorities are.
Except they won’t pass anything , because they’ll be vetoed.
You are not correct when you claim that everyone knows what the Republican’s prorities are. One of the big talking points that got Trump elected was “No New Wars”. A lot of people are politically ignorant and need things shoved in their faces. Making Republicans explain why their political leader is vetoing helpful policies is one of the easiest ways to shove politics into people’s faces.
You are correct that these measures won’t pass under Republican control; it would still be helpful polticially. Even if Republicans vote to pass the measures because they know it will be veoted, this will be helpful by breaking the party unity of the Republicans. “Congressman, the President vetoed a measure you supported. Why do you think that is?” is an easy way to force politicans to force themselves to put distance between themselves and the larger party.
Disagree, but let’s assume that’s true regardless and they don’t understand basic tenets of the Republican party. A veto is going to make them suddenly understand?
“I support the President” The end. Already seen that episode.
If it helps, as an Aussie nobody punching his coffee and about to blaze up on a hot Monday morning, I knew Trumps ‘no more wars’ was garbage and I know what Republicans priorities are. I suppose I could throw a bone and say there’s confusion between a number of really evil things, but if there are Americans out there who don’t know, I don’t know what to say to them.
sips coffee
You underestimate human stupidity. Something I want to stress is that this is not unique to the USA. Stupid people like this are everywhere, the USA is just the most famous pig pen.
Because it lets the Republicans set the agenda.
No one has to let them do anything. They have all the power. They’re going to do it regardless of whether Dems “let them” or not. Dems need to focus their energy somewhere that it can actually make a difference.
E: for clarity.
I’m not sure I understand who you’re talking about.
The original premise was that if the Dems win the House and Senate in the midterms, and then fail to propose legislation because Trump would veto it that they would then be rolling over and pissing themselves like whipped puppies in 2027.
You then asked why it would mean they would be rolling over and pissing themselves like whipped puppies in that scenario.
I explained that it would be because they were letting the Republicans set the agenda.
Then in your most recent reply, it appears to me that you’re saying the Republicans would have all the power.
Is that what you’re saying? Because that doesn’t make sense to me. If the Dems win the House and Senate, how do the Republicans have all the power?
Because of the aforementioned veto?
Exactly. The only option he has is the veto. That’s no reason to let him decide the agenda.
Make him veto popular initiatives. Make him prove over and over that he hates the American people. Force the Republicans in Congress to either side with the people to override the veto or admit that they care more about President Pedo than their own constituents.
Then use the vetos and votes to beat them in the next election.
However, that probably won’t happen. The Dems will roll over and piss themselves like whipped puppies. Because otherwise it would require that establishment Dems turn on the people they work for (billionaires and Israel) in order to support the people who voted for them.
If you do not have the power to do anything, you cannot “let” anyone do it. Just as I can’t “let” you drive too fast in your car, or stab a random person on the street.
…why?
He already has. There’s nothing he could possibly do to make that more clear. Sure as shit not a veto .
That’s completely unnecessary. Anyone who doesn’t know where they stand on these basic foundational issues sure as shit won’t know if they veto them.
You’ve never played chess, and it shows. You don’t understand tempo.
If you’re not putting your opponent on the defensive, your opponent is going to put you on the defensive.
By passing a progressive agenda in Congress, they force his hand. He vetos everything, because that’s what he does, and it shows his ass to swing-voters.
If Dems do nothing with a congressional majority because “it would just get vetoed,” then they’re letting him force their hands. They’d do nothing all session, which would show their ass to swing-voters.
If you don’t understand how that matters, then you don’t understand politics. Or you’re just a troll.
Either way, you’re fighting a losing battle here so just stop.